gb news. >> good morning, and welcome to sunday with not michael portillo are with me. arlene foster. today, my political panel will be discussing the turbulent few days of local and mayoral elections. can sunak survive to the next general election and are labour on course for a majority? we'll discuss all of that very soon. an apple a day keeps the doctor away, and it seems many brits are choosing not to see their gp's anymore. a recent lib dem survey has shown that only 47% of adults have been to see a doctor more than once in this last couple of years, and at that time he had only or rarely seen the same physician, doctor bhasha mukherjee will be giving her diagnosis on all of that. meanwhile over in america, they're tearing themselves apart over the war in gaza , tensions over the war in gaza, tensions have flared up at and they're at an all time high across american university campuses. these past

few weeks, we've seen the campus of columbia university in new york becoming the epicentre of the battle. we'll be chatting to sarah elliott. she's the spokeswoman of the republicans overseas uk, and she's going to discuss all of that with me. and of course, it wouldn't be sunday if we didn't have our arts editor of the express, stefan kyriazis. he's, of course, coming in to talk to us about his latest theatrical adventures. but before all of that , we're adventures. but before all of that, we're going to have our headunes that, we're going to have our headlines with ray allison . headlines with ray allison. >> good morning. 11:01, our top stories . the prime minister is stories. the prime minister is promising to take the fight to labour despite suffering mayoral election losses in england's two biggest cities, labour's richard parker seized the west midlands from outgoing conservative mayor andy street and london mayor sadiq khan secured a historic third term in office. former home secretary suella braverman told gb news mr sunak needs to make big, bold decisions.

>> there's no time to change leaders, so the prime minister is going to be leading us into the next general election, whether we like it or not. what he needs to do to salvage this dire situation is to accept the enormity of the problem. these terrible results, and quickly and urgently change course . so and urgently change course. so make sure that there are meaningful tax cuts that people can feel and benefit from. put a cap on legal migration . take us cap on legal migration. take us out of the european convention on human rights so that we actually stop the boats and make sure that we reclaim our streets back from the extremists. >> well, labour leader sir keir starmer says it's time for a change in government . change in government. >> big story of all these elections, including these elections, including these elections , is a nation that is elections, is a nation that is desperate to turn the page and move on. and this is the message to the prime minister and to the government. so many people have had enough of 14 years of decline that has cost them and their families and their communities. they're fed up with

the chaos and the division and the chaos and the division and the non—delivery, and they want to turn the page, turn their back on that decline and usher in national renewal with labour. >> well, sir keir starmer says he's determined to win, win back the trust of voters who turned away from the labour party over its stance on gaza. they lost some council seats to independents and to george galloway's workers party of britain . pat mcfadden is vice britain. pat mcfadden is vice chair of labour friends of israel . he chair of labour friends of israel. he told gb news chair of labour friends of israel . he told gb news the israel. he told gb news the party will support palestinians in government. >> but two things have guided our position all along. one is the one that you just mentioned, which is israel's right to defend itself after the appalling attacks on october the 7th that will remain. we will stick up for that. but we also want to see a better future for the palestinian people. and if we were to be elected at the coming election, that would be a big foreign policy priority for us. >> us. >> so, sadiq khan is beginning

his third term as london mayor after securing a majority of 275,000 over conservative rival susan hall . 275,000 over conservative rival susan hall. mr khan has accused the tories of running a campaign of fear mongering and non—stop negativity. he also said that london had rejected hard right wing populism . miss hall is wing populism. miss hall is urging him to reform the met and make london safe again. mayor khan says he's excited for the future. >> londoners want to see a change in government and what they're excited about is the chance of a labour mayor working with a labour government led by keir starmer. i'm excited. with a labour government led by keir starmer . i'm excited. the keir starmer. i'm excited. the last time that happened was 20 years ago and us working together. care. the cabinet a labour mayor. londoners will see a transformed city i can't wait. >> police are searching for a man who absconded from an open prison in suffolk . 23 year old prison in suffolk. 23 year old ricky wall was reported missing from hollesley bay in woodbridge yesterday morning. suffolk police say he failed to appear

for roll call. wall is currently serving a seven year sentence for aggravated burglary with intent. around 32,000 properties are still without running water in east sussex due to a burst pipe in east sussex due to a burst pipe there. southern water has issued an apology to customers in saint leonards on sea, hastings and westfield as they enter their fourth day of disruption. in a statement, the firm said they hope the supply will start to gradually return throughout today . anti—monarchy throughout today. anti—monarchy campaigners are holding a rally today in london to mark the first anniversary of the coronation of king charles. campaigners will gather in trafalgar square to protest arrests made during the event. organisers say britain has never seen such an energised, active and growing democratic republican movement. but former royal butler grant harrold told us there's too much to lose. >> you know, we only. we've only got this one royal family and if we got rid of them, then that's it.then we got rid of them, then that's it. then what makes us unique? i

feel that our royal family does make us quite unique and special, and we're going into it. you know what it costs each of us is it's still very little in the big scheme of things . in the big scheme of things. >> for all the latest headlines, sign up to gb news alerts by scanning the qr code on your screen or go to news.com.au alerts. now back to dame arlene i >> -- >> well, welcome to the show this sunday morning. it's coming up to 11:07, and it's been a turbulent few days of local and mayoral election results. can rishi sunak survived the next election and do these results mean that labour are on course to march straight into number 10? well, to consider this, i have with me emma ravella, and she's external affairs director at the centre for policy studies, former labour minister for armed forces bill rammell

and public affairs consultant and public affairs consultant and former labour aide stella sanders. and i didn't pronounce that right. but in any event, lovely to have you here, well , lovely to have you here, well, there's lots to talk about this morning. i think we all agree on that , but the first morning. i think we all agree on that, but the first thing i wanted to really concentrate on was the turnout. and i thought the turnout was incredibly low. and of course, i'm from northern ireland, and we're used to very high turnouts in northern ireland. i was looking back at my former seat in fermanagh and south tyrone, and the last time there was an election there, the turnout was nearly 70. but here we have london, 40.5. that's down about three percentage points from the last time the west midlands was 29.8. less than 30% of people thought it worth a while to come out and vote. and in teesside, down to 31% from, i think about 34% the last time. so i'm going to go to you first. bill, why such a low turnout ? turnout? >> if you look back through the decades, that's the kind of

turnout we do get for local elections. you know, i don't applaud that, but in my experience, it's bumped along at about 30, 35. i think what's interesting is for the mayoral elections generally, i think it's been higher. you know, 40% in london is a very good figure. i think a contributory factor this year may be tories staying at home. and in case that gives the tories hope for the general election, if you look back to 97, part of the reason that we got one, part of the reason we got one, part of the reason we got a huge labour landslide was tories staying at home there. so there are some tories who are coming to labour, some are going to reform . but i think both last to reform. but i think both last thursday and come the general election , some will simply, election, some will simply, simply stay at home. >> and emma, would you agree with that? is it the tories staying at home? is that an explanation , particularly in the explanation, particularly in the west midlands, which i thought was incredibly low, less than 30. and we know that there was a change there from andy street, who was a hugely popular mayor. >> i think it's definitely a big

factor. as bill said, you know, these are never elections that have phenomenally high turnout. we tend to see, you know, much, much higher, 20 odd percent higher general election , and higher general election, and when you have local elections alongside other things, you know , so in london, it's higher than the west midlands because you had mayor and council and areas where you had local council and police and crime commissioner. it would have been lower if it would just say police and crime commissioner on its own there. the elections that tend to have absolutely lowest the lowest turnout. i think what is a concern i think for is that tories will take too much heart in this. they will say, oh, well, if it's our vote, we're staying home. they're not necessarily, you know, going in massive droves to, to labour or reform or somewhere else. if we could just get them out the doom could just get them out the door, maybe there's some hope. and i think they might, they may put slightly too much stock in that, although it has to be said, if you look at the west midlands reform cost, andy street, you could say his seat because , we're assuming that because, we're assuming that most of those people would ordinarily vote conservative. >> and on this occasion they voted for a reform that surely

is a concern as well. >> yeah, it's a massive concern. i don't think you can automatically say, oh, reform vote would be conservative vote without a without a reform candidate. but it is definitely a factor . and the conservatives a factor. and the conservatives will be concerned in the areas where reform have stood because they only fielded candidates at they only fielded candidates at the local council level, about 1 in 8 of the available, you know , in 8 of the available, you know, seats that were up for election. so if they manage to stand in all 650 parliamentary seats, it's going to cause them problems. >> sure. >> sure. >> and suella, i was listening to pat mcfadden there on the news, but he also said when he was talking to camilla earlier on today, that this round of elections has given labour a sense of belief . if they can sense of belief. if they can believe now that they can win the general election. is that how you see these results? >> for sure. labour, of course , >> for sure. labour, of course, always we want to be as cautious as possible and you will always have commentators who will be playing down what's going on. i think it's actually very positive that there were so many commentators over the last few days who were questioning how well labour is going to do ,

well labour is going to do, because labour's strategy in terms of its leadership is always to say, don't be complacent. you always see we underperform the polls , be very, underperform the polls, be very, very careful. so in a sense, a lot of the spinners have been doing labour's job for them by by making sure that that labour voters do go out and vote. to what extent they actually manage to do that, i don't know, i do agree that the voter turnout has been similar to previous decades , as i personally am convinced that the fact that people needed a vote, they needed an id to go and vote, will have made some people not vote, because i can imagine , just like boris imagine, just like boris johnson, you know, didn't bring his own idea and was turned away at the polls. i can imagine a lot of people going about their normal day and forgetting to bnng normal day and forgetting to bring their id and this is how you get a result when you have an independent vote and a green vote, that is maybe slightly positive. i still don't think that the independence and the reform votes in all of these parties did well enough to have an actual effect in the general election, because i think that

general elections are very different from local elections. that turnout is high, higher people do actually vote, and the vast majority of people, the complacent voter, if you want the one who doesn't vote for the general, for the local elections, but who definitely votes for the general elections, is someone who is most likely to vote for one of the two mainstream parties. >> yeah, yeah. interesting i'm glad you brought up the voter id issue because of course we in northern ireland have had voter id for over 20 years, and we still have very high turnouts. but i knew that that was going to be a point that labour in particular, were raising around the fact that a lot of people didn't have voter id, and even bofis didn't have voter id, and even boris johnson brought a prospect magazine, apparently, along with a photograph of himself in it, to get into the votes. but let's look now at the west midlands , look now at the west midlands, because i think that's probably the biggest story , if you like, the biggest story, if you like, of the evening, andy street losing there by just over 1500 votes. but i thought it was very interesting, bill, to see that the independent candidate for

gaza getting 43,000 votes. >> yeah. and i think that is a concern, i you know, i think the labour party's position, clear position on gaza has been the correct one. support for the state of israel horror at what happened last october, but also calling for a ceasefire now, i think there has been real misrepresentation of one interview that keir did immediately after october, and that's been weaponised by people on the far left and within some muslim communities. on the far left and within some muslim communities . and we've muslim communities. and we've got a better respond, better get across the argument that, as pat mcfadden was saying in government, it's going to be a major foreign policy priority to actually move towards a two state solution. >> yes, because people are trying to make it an either or situation. either support israel or you support palestine . and or you support palestine. and it's a lot more nuanced than that. and keir has been trying to do that, hasn't he? and that's absolutely. >> and if you look back through

history and i'm a former foreign office minister, the times, we've had the best impact and pushed, israel and the palestinians towards a two state solution is when you've had a labour government and when you've had a democrat in the white house. now i think we need to make that clear to people that that is a priority and that, you know, we support israel. but but we think there needs to be a ceasefire, to bnng needs to be a ceasefire, to bring some relief to the massive suffering that's taking place in gaza at the moment. sure. >> and stella , i mean, jess >> and stella, i mean, jess phillips mp, she said that labour's stance on the war in gaza has cost them votes . you gaza has cost them votes. you would agree with that, would you? >> the, the it has definitely cost them some votes, but i don't think it's enough to cause much concern in the general elections for the very simple reason that if you look at george galloway's workers party, for example, they only want something like four seats. and that was in places where labour either already has a very comfortable majority or they are

very likely to comfortably win the westminster seat come the general elections. i think, if anything, what the west midlands vote shows us and what the two tory may mayors who are out performed the national polls for the conservative party. i think what it shows us is that voters will vote for results . what they will vote for results. what they wanted to see was growth building and regional dynamism. and these two candidates showed that to the voters throughout their time in office. and i think that that is something that should make us think that voters do not care about culture war issues as much as we thought they did, which is why i think that, you know, suella braverman , for example, wrote for the telegraph yesterday saying that these results should make, rishi sunak come closer to her own brand of politics. but i think that what these elections shows us is that people are really fed up with the actual state of decline because this is what local elections always show. councils, people , when they're

councils, people, when they're looking around, they're looking at their councils and they're thinking, you know , my, my, my, thinking, you know, my, my, my, my streets are dirty. i don't have the services that i thought i had. so i think that the impact is going to be, very, very manageable. >> well, it's funny, you should say that because we've seen a green candidate. i think it was in leeds city council saying that he had a win for gaza instead of the streets cleaning and everything that you associate with, local councillor, should we be concerned about the spectre of sectarian politics here in the mainland ? mainland? >> i, i think it's definitely something that can't be dismissed. and, you know, events since october have really brought it to the forefront. i think it would be easy to sort of overexaggerate the impact it will have on on the general election as a whole, but certainly in, in very specific areas where there is a specific, you know, a very high muslim population, for example , or population, for example, or even, you know, in areas like bristol where you have a very high student population and student activism is really, you know, being driven by this kind of thing , then it will have a of thing, then it will have a factor and it is going to bring

votes away from labour. >> so if we look at the councils overall bill, then labour is up 185. is that in and around where they want it to be, do we think? and the big story , of course, is and the big story, of course, is that the conservatives have dropped below the liberal democrats in terms of the number of councillors that they actually hold for a party of government that's really, really poonisnt government that's really, really poor, isn't it? >> it is . i mean, look, there's >> it is. i mean, look, there's no two ways about it. last thursday was a shocking set of results for the tory party you know, their worst performance in local government for about 40 years. blackpool south is a by—election, a massive 26% swing to the labour party . and then we to the labour party. and then we win win ten out of the 11 mayors for election. and frankly, the icing on the cake that i didn't think would happen is defeating andy street in the west midlands, i think it's a all thatis midlands, i think it's a all that is showing a pattern that we are, and you can never take anything for granted. and the labour party needs to work and reassure people. but it looks like we're heading for a significant labour majority at the general election.

>> i was going to ask you for your standout moments. for you. the standout moment, obviously, is the west midlands. >> it is because not not electorally , it's not that electorally, it's not that significant, but symbolically , significant, but symbolically, you know, sunak had pinned his hopes on ben houchen and andy street being re—elected and for us to overturn them and, you know, andy street cross party dispassionately has been a very, very good mayor for the west midlands. and to defeat him, i think was the standout moment for me. >> yeah, it's interesting because when we talk about andy street and i was looking last night to see all of his opponents congratulating him and saying thank you for everything that you've done . you've been a that you've done. you've been a great mayor, wishing him all the best. there was quite the contrast with london. i thought in terms of that declaration and the west midlands declaration wasn't there. >> yeah, it seems like the london count and declaration was quite, contentious. you had the britain first candidate turning his back on sadiq khan, which, you know, is never something you want to see. i think it's completely ridiculous , to be completely ridiculous, to be doing that, i think what andy

street's loss is a is a significant hit for the conservative party because he is such a recognisable going anywhere. >> he's staying around. apparently he's staying here. >> indeed. and what he chooses to do next will be a very interesting thing to watch, i think, but , interesting thing to watch, i think, but, you know, interesting thing to watch, i think, but , you know, with, with think, but, you know, with, with the two big mayors with andy street and ben houchen, you have big characters. they are. it's all about a strong personal brand. it's all about, you know, as stella said, delivering for their local area , whether that's their local area, whether that's housing, infrastructure, you know, anything else, crime , so know, anything else, crime, so he has been able to deliver a significant amount for the west midlands. and i think it's, you know, it's actually quite nice in politics to have your opponents. thank you for a job well done. but for the conservatives, not having andy will be a problem. >> yeah . >> yeah. >> yeah. >> well you just want to quickly. >> yeah. >> yeah. >> i was going to make the point that in london you're right. it was antagonistic. i would say it wouldn't i? i think that was the kind of campaign that susan hall ran . but the really interesting ran. but the really interesting question is this is now three london mayoral elections in a row where the tories have chosen atrocious candidates, and i think they need to look long and

hard at that. you know, i think i think a stronger tory candidate could have come closer to sadiq and stella. >> finally. what do you think about that? i mean, london was quite fractious, but the tories seemed to not put enough effort into their exactly . into their exactly. >> they had a very bad candidate, but at the same time it was a historic victory. candidate, but at the same time it was a historic victory . and i it was a historic victory. and i think the mistake that a lot of people are doing is they're taking the local election results and they're trying to predict what's going to happen in the general elections. sky news shared this very embarrassing graph yesterday, which modelled the local election results on top of the general of what would happen in the general elections, which would be a hung parliament, because labour only got 9, across across the nation, which i think is, is, is really not the case. sadiq khan we have to remember he won off the back of ulez, which was an incredibly controversial policy . he was controversial policy. he was attacked for it mercilessly by the media for a very, very long time. he stuck to his guns . he time. he stuck to his guns. he did not do a u—turn, and he won

a third historic victory. >> yeah, yeah, well, certainly much to talk about. and that's what we always tend to do. we always tend to take one election and then put it onto the next election . but i'm sure we'll election. but i'm sure we'll have many conversations before the general election , thanks to the general election, thanks to you, to emma bell and estella. and after the break, we'll be getting to the bottom of why many people are avoiding seeing their doctors. according to new research released by the lib dems. i'll be speaking to junior doctor bhasha mukherjee for all of her diagnosis. see you then

welcome back to the show. well, almost half of patients . hardly almost half of patients. hardly ever or never see the cmp. according to findings in a recent poll conducted by the liberal democrat party , the liberal democrat party, the survey found that 47% of adults who had been to see a doctor more than once in this last

couple of years had never or only rarely seen the same physician responding to the findings, the royal college of gp said the reality was that there are not enough doctors to ensure continuity of care for all patients. and joining me now to discuss this is junior doctor bhasha mukherjee. rasha, thank you so much for coming in. well, first of all, your reaction to that research that has come out in terms of continuity of care. i mean, is that an important thing , having that continuity of care? >> i think it's profoundly important , >> i think it's profoundly important, not just for the patient themselves, because they have to keep repeating themselves every time they see new doctors. but actually, for patients outcomes as well. and also for the doctor, it's profound, the effect of just i'll give you an example. yeah, i'll give you an example. yeah, i had a patient a couple of weeks ago , an elderly patient weeks ago, an elderly patient who i saw one week and she deteriorated very quickly in that one week. i was talking to her over the telephone, and i could tell from just the sound of her voice that something had changed. i was concerned enough that i had to call the ambulance

for her, so that is the importance of continuity of care. somebody who would have never spoken to this patient might not have picked something like that up. and this is actually shown in the data as well, that actually continuity of care actually reduces the number of hospital admissions. the mortality rate . so many the mortality rate. so many factors are involved in this actually . actually. >> so the royal college of gps have said, look yes, that would be very nice, but we can't do it because the reality is we don't have enough gp's and actually it's not always necessary for all conditions , that you see the all conditions, that you see the same gp and they warned against setting targets, how do you react to that. because, you know, surely the answer to this is to have more gp's in place and the government are saying they are putting more gps in place, but clearly it's still not enough. >> i think we have to take a different approach in this whole problem, ultimately to bring in more gps to train more gps, even employing more gps from other parts of the world, there is

going to be a lag in training them up, to be up to speed with deaung them up, to be up to speed with dealing with conditions in this country, dealing with the cultural nuances of this country . however, i think we have to see the fact that there's been over a million people come into this country in the last two years alone. so i think the problem lies in the supply versus demand. we have far too many of the populations growing exponentially, and we have to target out that. we have to target out that. we have to target our immigration policies. i know the government is trying to do the rwanda plan and all of it, but i mean, i always say this prevention is better than cure. and i do think that the rwanda plan is a curative approach rather than the preventative approach. well they would argue, i think if the government's position is right, that they're hoping it will act as a deterrent and stop people from coming to the uk in the first place. >> but in terms of senior gp, the liberal democrats have talked about a legal right to see your gp within seven days and if it's an urgent issue

within 24 hours, i mean, do you think a target like that would work? or as the royal college of gp said, is that something that they think is not really something that will work? >> i think , yes, i do see the >> i think, yes, i do see the point of view from the royal college in terms of not everything needs to be seen by a gp. i had a patient one time that came in because someone had thrown a paper ball at that face, and they wanted me to look at their eyes, something as silly as that was a wasted appointment. we're also seeing loads of patients who are coming in to look at, oh, doctor, i've not been seen by my secondary care, my hospital doctors yet. can you write them an email? that's a very silly reason to come in and waste an appointment. however, i do think that there can be a middle approach where, you know, we are you know, the practice i'm currently working at, we have we are approaching something called are approaching something called a total triage system, which is actually going to be governed by doctors that actually triage to decide why where the where the patient needs to end up. essentially is this something

that can be dealt with a, pharmacist or a doctor, or can this be just something that the admin team can deal with? however, to leave this to say that actually, either, you know , that actually, either, you know, to enforce something which the tory government have been trying to do where they're saying that these certain conditions, you have to go see your pharmacist first. ultimately, there is nuance and it's not up to the patient, really to know whether their condition is severe enough, where they should just see somebody like a pharmacist or a physician's associate, or actually, would that you know, would that be more beneficial for a gp to see ultimately , this for a gp to see ultimately, this is what we practice in gps practice with nuance , which is practice with nuance, which is not something that is trained in the same way for other for other health care professionals. and not what you're talking about. >> there really is a change in culture. and for patients to get used to that change in culture, because of course, if you want to see your gp, if you're feeling unwell and the gp says, look, go and see a pharmacist or it'd be more appropriate for you

to see the practice nurse and to see me. sometimes people react badly to that, don't they? because they think they need to see their gp. >> i think i think the fact there is that that has been reviewed by a doctor first. yeah. what we've seen in the past with one on one services people just read off a checklist and decide if someone needs to go into a&e or see a doctor or something else, which is, you know, medicine is not a checklist. no. you know, it's something that comes with years of experience of knowing when something is off. there are so many times where i'll be reading off a checklist of you know, even our cancer pathways. some of them, it literally says one of them, it literally says one of them, it literally says one of the criteria. it says gp concern . and that is something concern. and that is something thatis concern. and that is something that is very difficult to quantify. sometimes you just know as a doctor that something's not right. and no amount of checklist learning really can, can teach that. >> yeah, but it's also to have the trust of their patients to do that and to allow the gp to say, you don't need to see me today. you can see your pharmacist or you can see the

practice nurse or whatever. i suppose. finally, the big issue about all of this is money is not really, because as we know, the nhs takes up a huge block of money from the treasury each year and in some of the devolved administrations, you take northern ireland, for example. it takes up more than half of the block grant to run the nhs. how are we going to deal with this? is there a case for reform? you've talked about the changes in triage. is there a case for genuine wholescale reform and how is that going to work? >> i think yes, change is definitely inevitable and absolutely necessary in this case, because no amount of throwing in money, more money is going to solve this problem. as we've said, there are structural changes that can be made . the changes that can be made. the government is not the case that there's not enough money. it's where the government is choosing to spend their money. the government has actually spent taxpayer money on training up physicians associates. they're offering them free degrees, which is a two year degree to essentially prescribe and see patients, and i just don't think that that's a good way to use the money. instead, if they

retain more doctors in that way, it would just be much better. i mean, there's loads of other ways. it's almost like the government is trying to replace doctors with giving other specialities a little two year degree. i mean, the physicians associates, they only have to do two years, pharmacists, they only have to do a six month course to be able to prescribe medication. i once saw a medical practitioner who gave me a medication because i requested it, without even explaining to me what the medication did, how to use it. i actually had a really bad reaction from it. thank goodness i'm medically trained myself, so i knew what to do. this person was able to prescribe, but they did none of the other groundwork that's needed with it. so just because be giving people the power to prescribe, which is what the government's pretty much doing and pushing for, doesn't mean that you're, you know, you're going to get the same quality of care that you would get from doctor. >> absolutely. and we haven't even had time to speak about i. bashan even had time to speak about i. bashar, you'll come back and speak to me someday about that. i and health care. but thank you so much, bhasha mukherjee, for coming in. now we'll be looking

at the growing instability on american campuses over gaza , and american campuses over gaza, and whether trump is set for a triumphal presidential comeback as his trial continues.

on. >> welcome back to the show. >> welcome back to the show. >> well, tensions over the war in gaza have continued to flare at american universities following efforts to clamp down on many campuses this week , on many campuses this week, dozens of new arrests were made in new york, and punches were thrown between pro—palestinian demonstrators and a counter—protest at the university of chicago schools. elsewhere were really trying to turn their focus towards graduations , including some this graduations, including some this weekend on campuses such as northeastern and ohio state, where demonstrations have led to arrests . still, the wave of arrests. still, the wave of student activism continues to spread , including to

spread, including to universities outside of the united states and joining me now to discuss all of this is the spokeswoman for republicans overseas uk, sarah elliott. sarah, lovely to see you again . sarah, lovely to see you again. and this has become a real issue.i and this has become a real issue. i was in america in march and in columbia university it was kicking off around then. i mean, why has this continued to grow across the united states? >> well, for many reasons. but originally they want their universities to divest investments from israel or any israel related entities is, but they they're not just students who are protesting these. it is organised by outside groups, it should be noted that at columbia, when there were over 234 arrests, 132 of them were not even affiliated with the university. >> oh, interesting. >> oh, interesting. >> and you've also noticed a lot of their tents look alike amongst all the different university campuses, third party groups like black lives matter, labour movements have all

influenced these groups on how to do it . they've been they've to do it. they've been they've been actually planning this for a lot longer than the conflict. the recent conflict in israel , the recent conflict in israel, and they're not just limiting this to israel and gaza. they want to actually dismantle these institutions because they believe they are a violent form of colonial legacy. so it's a form of colonialism , but of form of colonialism, but of course, there's been a backlash to this. we've actually seen the rise of students, you know, saving the american flag from touching the ground, chants of usa and the national anthem being sung at the protesters. and we've also seen law enforcement having to step in, even democrat , mayor enforcement having to step in, even democrat, mayor eric adams said, this is, unacceptable and stepped in. so, president joe biden has given remarks on it, but he hasn't really signalled out that this is a very anti—semitic movement, he's trying to play both sides and,

of course, the former secretary of course, the former secretary of state, hillary clinton , is of state, hillary clinton, is connected with columbia university, and she has taken a lot of abuse in relation to her stance on what's going on in the middle east as well. >> but how have universities handled the protests , or have handled the protests, or have they been trying to talk to the students, or are they actually saying, look, this is unacceptable and you'll be suspended if you continue with this? >> yeah, well, it's been a mixed bag. mixed bag. so columbia university negotiated, and the president came out with a video yesterday saying we're we see the reasoning on both sides. but then you have i know. and then you see the university of florida, where they're like, absolutely no tolerance. this is breaking the law . you are breaking the law. you are suspended, dit dit dit. now columbia did suspend some. yeah. but then we have like northwestern university university who are giving scholarship now to palestinian students every year and faculty as a as a peace agreement with these protesters . these protesters.

>> and i noticed somewhere as well that some of the students were trying to link this back to the protests over the vietnam war, to try and justify what they were doing. i mean, how do you feel about that? >> all right. they're completely unrelated . yeah. you know, and unrelated. yeah. you know, and this is a nation state, israel, trying to defend its survival in the middle east and has nothing to do with, you know, fighting communism or sending american troops there, this is fighting terrorism . terrorism. >> and of course, the universities are moving into that period, like all university where they're looking at graduations, commencements, i think they're called in the us. so is this going to have an impact? it's already starting to have an impact, hasn't it? >> oh yeah. i mean they the protest , it's in the >> oh yeah. i mean they the protest, it's in the middle of the commencement. i mean it's shocking . harvard university shocking. harvard university actually had as their commencement speaker this year, even after claudine gay, the president had to step down. who has equated israel with hitler. my has equated israel with hitler. my goodness. so i don't know if lessons are being learned here, but i know that many alumni associations are retracting

their donations. associations are retracting their donations . they're not their donations. they're not going to no longer give. they're going to no longer give. they're going to no longer give. they're going to be conditions put on these universities. and you may see some of them really be strapped for cash after this. >> and the chilling effect , of >> and the chilling effect, of course, that it has on jewish students that are there as well. yes >> jewish students. and think of, you know, you've been working there , going to school, working there, going to school, this is your senior year and you can't have a proper graduation ceremony. you can't even go to class . everything is online. but class. everything is online. but yeah, the jewish students feel completely unsafe. their rabbis are telling them not to show up . are telling them not to show up. i mean, columbia university even retracted , an entrance, card for retracted, an entrance, card for a jewish professor. >> so that. >> so that. >> so that. >> so he couldn't even enter the premises? >> yeah, yeah. and yet, a muslim professors, i understand, who had been barred was allowed to come back into the college again, and he was able to do so. and many of those faculty are protesting as well. yeah. so the safe space for those jewish students, it really is dreadful. sarah. and i'm sure we'll

unfortunately see a lot more of it. but thank you so much for coming in. thanks for having me today. thanks to sarah elliott. and still ahead, it's time to take to the stage for our weekly catch up with stefan kyriazis to hear all about his latest escapades

welcome back. well, it's been another busy week for theatre goers. and stefan kyriazis, as always, is one of those. how are you?ifs always, is one of those. how are you? it's lovely to see you again. i'm good. >> thank you. yeah, it's been a little bit action packed this week. yeah. and i've actually got a question that kind of involves almost politics in the state as well. so what would you do if the state could implant a chip into people that would monitor their brains and possibly eradicate it all crime forever? that's minority report .

forever? that's minority report. goodness. philip k dick, short story, 1956 famous tom cruise blockbuster. it's now on at the lyric hammersmith, and we've got a trailer that shows you a little bit what it's all about. >> could we predict crime or murder by scanning the human brain? >> you now have 30s . >> you now have 30s. >> you now have 30s. >> you now have 30s. >> you have less than 10s to escape. >> i believe i truly believe we are living happier lives. >> don't you ? >> don't you? >> don't you? >> un. well, i have to say, the visuals are pretty impressive. anyway >> they are. so this is directed by max webster, who did life of pi, which is one of the most beautiful stage productions i've

ever seen , unfortunately, in my ever seen, unfortunately, in my review and many other people , i review and many other people, i would say there is more life in the sets than there is in the acting and the script. it really , really falls down. so it looks incredible. the central character, dame juliet anderton, takes the kind of, i guess the tom cruise role. >> someone interesting. right? >> someone interesting. right? >> someone interesting. right? >> so someone very highly positioned this time. she's actually the creator of this pre—crime team, and she's very smugly announcing on a worldwide stream its latest, levels of program. and she's taking a lot of credit for everything, and she wants to do a demonstration , she wants to do a demonstration, and what the precogs do, there are these three people trapped in a secret bunker working with computers. they can predict from your amygdala in your brain, violent or antisocial impulses. and you are convicted on your impulse, not your action. >> goodness, the thought police have really gone mad. indeed she wants to show off. >> so she does a live test, and the results come out. and guess

whose name is on the sheet of paper that she pulls out , so she paper that she pulls out, so she then has to flee for her life , then has to flee for her life, andifs then has to flee for her life, and it's basically it's a big discussion about free will. and there's some really interesting points in there that actually, if you start changing the way people behave because they start checking themselves and stopping the way that they behave , you do the way that they behave, you do actually change the brain. and the amygdala is also where creativity and individuality comes from. so it's not just free will versus a police state. it's really good idea. but the acting, it's lots of shouting instead of real drama, lots of info dumping, and it looks great there. but it's quite a confined set and there's just there was so much running from side to side. if you remember those old arcade games like a ping pong game where it kind of went boing, boing, boing. so they kind of do that, grab something and then run to the other side and then run to the other side and it gets a bit wearying. so even though it looks wonderful, the ideas are fantastic. it's incredibly relevant now. lots of stuff about al, it just doesn't

come off. and it's a really disappointing production. and i was i was really looking forward to it. we've had stranger things in the theatre showing how it can be done. i expected, and it does look great. it does look great, but oof , i don't great, but oof, i don't recommend. i'm very, very sorry. >> well , look, let's go on to >> well, look, let's go on to something else. another very modern adaptation , but this time modern adaptation, but this time something which is 120 years old. yeah >> 1904 so this is chekhov, and i am one of these people that always just thought chekhov, russian literature. i've always been a bit scared of it, and the more i've seen recently is the man knew what he was talking about a bit like shakespeare. it's all in there. you recognise everything. characters human nature doesn't really change despite sci fi efforts . so despite sci fi efforts. so that's on at the donmar, and we've got a little teaser here with the cast talking about. >> it has a certain urgency, which i feel we all can relate to . to. >> one of the great things about this play is you're laughing and then going, oh god . it's that then going, oh god. it's that classic thing of watching a

family implode and avoid talking about the stuff that needs talking about . talking about. >> it's very relatable. not to sound very, but it is . sound very, but it is. >> the people in the play are the people in the audience . the people in the audience. >> this is so freeing. no choice is kind of is set when you are in rehearsals, you kind of go through the blocking of something and then there's the room to play, whereas we have no idea what anybody is going to do at any time. >> and so how did you feel about this one? >> i pretty much actually, for once, what they say and what they promised. so very modern setting and it's a light box. you come in and you're in four sides around a central stage with a great big glowing white panel above , very highly lit. so panel above, very highly lit. so make sure you look okay, because you can see the whole audience the whole time, and then you start realising as it goes on, that actually dotted around the front row is the cast and you don't even notice them. and then they leap up into action. then they leap up into action. then they sit back down so nobody ever truly leaves. it kind of

bnngs ever truly leaves. it kind of brings you into it as well. it's the classic story. aristocratic family coming back to their estate one last time. they've lost all their money. it's going to have to be sold. there are things they could do to ease into this new modern reality, but they're just unable to let go of old patterns. the blonde lady you saw there is nina hoss, who was in homeland, german actress, london debut . she's actress, london debut. she's sensational. the other person as a deal actor who's been on loads and loads of stuff on tv, the cast is superb. it's exciting. you get a band on stage , it you get a band on stage, it powered through and i really a couple of critics have hated it. i really loved it. i was entertained , i understood it and entertained, i understood it and it's all as much about where we are now. it's about money, power, class, people losing things, beauty, wealth, position, whatever it might be very relevant, i loved it. it's on at the donmar and we've also got another sorry, we've got another gorgeous thing . this is another gorgeous thing. this is much more traditional, but this is shakespeare. yeah, but done in a way i've never seen before.

have a little look at the clip . here. we . we. number one. gorgeous gorgeous royal ballet, there's a very famous romeo and juliet ballet, but most of shakespeare's generally not touched by dance that much. this is directed, choreographed and directed by christopher wheeldon. hugely talented, modern music, but rather lovely. and it's the story of two kings that are best friends, and one of the king's wives is pregnant, and he suddenly starts becoming very jealous and thinking that his friend is having an affair with his wife . it all goes horribly,

his wife. it all goes horribly, horribly wrong. she dies, his older son dies. the child is smuggled away. so you have this very cold and cool start, which you probably saw at the beginning. it's all very grey's and brutalist sort of tones and great big sort of aggressive stair staircases. pardon me. and then act two. we go into bohemia, the land, and there's this almost floating huge tree with all these garlands and jewels and things hanging from it. you can see all the roots. >> sounds fabulous. >> sounds fabulous. >> everybody's beautifully dressed. it's gorgeous. the dancing is beautiful, and i often you need to read the notes on ballet, or i get a little bit bored with all the pointing and walking around the story once, you know, the sort of basically who the characters are, the story is so well told, and there's real like they're dancers . they're not actors. dancers. they're not actors. they could give a masterclass to the people in minority report. the king going mad, his jealousy, the way he attacks his wife, the way she suffers and is still serene and elegant. the young couple falling in love in

acts two, and then the big emotional finale, beautifully done. trees. incredible. there's a boat on stage, done with silks and sheets that i don't. i still, every time i see it, i'm dazzled. and then it turns around and it turns into another boat and things are projected. it's almost like video screens at some stage. it's thrilling, beautiful , incredibly danced. beautiful, incredibly danced. i really love it. and again, for people that are a bit scared about ballet or sort of formal scary dance, it's not. it's a great story, really well told. i love it. on at the royal opera house until june. please go and see stefan . see stefan. >> thank you so much. >> thank you so much. >> well, you've been watching arlene foster and gb news, britain's news channel. that concludes the first hour of the programme. but don't go away as after the break we'll be discussing the growing irish migrant crisis, the rise of the evangelical right in america. and i'll be speaking to ian mcwhirter for his take on who will take over the top job over in scotland . i'll see you then .

in scotland. i'll see you then. >> a brighter outlook with boxt solar , the sponsors of weather solar, the sponsors of weather on . gb news. on. gb news. >> hello and welcome to your gb news weather update brought to you by the met office. a lot of cloud and rain continuing in the north. sunshine and showers. bank holiday monday but turning a little bit more settled before that though we do have low pressure in charge, especially across southeastern england, bringing cloudier conditions here with outbreaks of rain and that rain is going to be pushing its way northwards, affecting the south and southern parts of wales and also southeastern england further north across northern ireland and scotland. staying cloudy here. patchy outbreaks of rain, but also some showers breaking out across northeastern parts of scotland. some of these could turn quite thundery in the sunshine, though we could see highs reaching up to 18, possibly 19 degrees across the likes of the midlands. so feeling warm where you do see the sunshine into this evening, then cloud and rain is going to be continuing

to push its way northward. rain generally fizzling out across parts of wales but across scotland and northern ireland, still holding on to a lot of cloud. still patchy outbreaks of rain and then across southeastern england with just seeing some outbreaks of rain moving in otherwise , with a lot moving in otherwise, with a lot of cloud around temperatures really staying up. but we will see some mist and fog patches developing, especially across the central parts of england, that generally lifting, breaking up. but it is going to be a damp start across southeastern england on bank holiday monday. outbreaks of rain here elsewhere sunny spells, showers breaking out more widely. sunny spells, showers breaking out more widely . some of these out more widely. some of these could be on the heavy side with highs of 18 or 19 degrees. >> that warm feeling inside from boxt boilers sponsors of weather on

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>> good afternoon and welcome to the second hour of sunday with arlene foster here on gb news. well, as britain ramps up its efforts to deter asylum seekers, one politically explosive repercussion is occurring. with an influx of refugees making their way across the irish sea. i'll be speaking to irish historian and author ruth dudley edwards for her take on this. well, with an important year ahead for americans hitting the ballot boxes, one group could make a particular impact on the results. support from conservative christian voters could be a key component to a trump victory. historian and author martin whitlock will be here with us to share his thoughts . and following humza thoughts. and following humza yousaf's departure as scotland's first minister, we're going to find out very soon who's going to replace him to take the helm of the snp leadership. i'll be joined by political commentator and journalist ian mcwhirter for

his diagnosis. and finally, as always , as part of the taste of always, as part of the taste of britain series, we always have to have food on this show. when i'm about, i'll be speaking to andy shovel, founder of uk based plant based food. this. he'll share with us his tasty creations that we should all be trying over any bank holiday barbecues. all of that ahead. but first, your headlines with ray allison . ray allison. >> good afternoon. 12:01. our top stories. the prime minister is promising to take the fight to labour despite suffering mayoral election losses in england's two biggest cities. labour's richard parker sees the west midlands from outgoing tory mayor andy street and london mayor andy street and london mayor sadiq khan secured a historic third term in office. transport secretary mark harper told gb news it's time to rally around the leader. >> i think all conservatives now need to get behind the prime minister as the chairman said in

his article this morning, and take that message to the country we see from the analysis that experts have done that the results show that the position is closer than the polls are suggesting . so it's everything suggesting. so it's everything is delightful for the next election, and we're absolutely up for that fight. >> however, labour leader sir keir starmer says it's time for a change of government . a change of government. >> big story of all these elections, including these elections, including these elections , is a nation that is elections, is a nation that is desperate to turn the page and move on. and this is the message to the prime minister and to the government. so many people have had enough of 14 years of decline that has cost them and their families and their communities. they're fed up with the chaos and the division and the chaos and the division and the non—delivery, and they want to turn the page, turn their back on that decline and usher in national renewal with labour. >> so keir starmer says he's determined to win back the trust of voters who turned away from the labour party over its stance

on gaza. they lost some council seats to independents and to george galloway's workers party of britain . pat mcfadden is vice of britain. pat mcfadden is vice chair of labour friends of israel . he chair of labour friends of israel. he told gb news chair of labour friends of israel . he told gb news the israel. he told gb news the party will support palestinians in government, but two things have guided our position all along. >> one is the one that you just mentioned, which is israel's right to defend itself. after the appalling attacks on october 7 that will remain. we will stick up for that. but we also want to see a better future for the palestinian people. and if we were to be elected at the coming election, that would be a big foreign policy priority for us. >> us. >> sadiq khan is beginning his third term as london mayor after securing a majority of 275,000 over tory rival susan hall. mr khan has accused the tories of running a campaign of fear mongering and non—stop negativity. he also said that london had rejected hard right wing populism from miss hall, is

urging him to reform the met and make london safe again. mayor khan says he's excited for the future. >> londoners want to see a change in government, and what they're excited about is the chance of a labour mayor working with a labour government led by keir starmer. i'm excited. the last time that happened was 20 years ago and us working together. keir, the cabinet and labour mayor londoners will see a transformed city. i can't wait i >> -- >> around 32,000 properties are still without running water in east sussex due to a burst pipe. southern water has issued an apology to customers in saint leonards on sea, hastings and westfield as they enter their fourth day of disruption. in a statement, the firm said they hope the supply will start to gradually return throughout today. gradually return throughout today . police are searching for today. police are searching for a man who absconded from an open prison in suffolk. 23 year old ricky wall was reported missing from hollesley bay in woodbridge yesterday morning when he failed

to appear for roll call. wall is currently serving a seven year sentence for aggravated burglary with intent . australian police with intent. australian police say a 16 year old boy killed after stabbing a man in perth had been radically radicalised. excuse me online. the teenager was shot dead on saturday night after stabbing a victim in the back with a kitchen knife. he then rushed at police officers. authorities say the attack indicated terrorism and there were signs of mental health issues. >> we are dealing with complex issues with this 16 year old male, both mental health issues but also online radicalisation issues, he is known to police, but we believe he very much is acting alone and we do not have concerns at this time that there is ongoing network or other concerns that might have been seen over in sydney. >> for the latest stories, you can sign up for gb news alerts by scanning the qr code on your screen, or go to gbnews.com

slash alerts. back now to dame eileen i >> welcome back to the show. well, with the uk's tough new immigration laws having finally cleared . parliament and prime cleared. parliament and prime minister rishi sunak promising to start deporting asylum seekers within weeks, ireland is experiencing an unprecedented surge in migration from britain as asylum seekers flee the uk government's threat to fly them to rwanda, with limited rights of appeal. many are leaving britain, we are told, and entering the republic of ireland by crossing the czech sfry border with its uk neighbour, northern ireland. officials in ireland warn that asylum cases inherited from britain will top 20,000 in ireland this year alone, some government lawmakers in dublin are laying the blame on the prime minister sunak, for treating ireland's difficulty as

england's opportunity to discuss this. now i'm joined by irish historian , author and a good historian, author and a good friend of mine, ruth dudley edwards. ruth, it's lovely to see you. lovely to see you. so much for coming in. so, ruth , i much for coming in. so, ruth, i mean, you've written about this over this past week. you had a piece in the telegraph. ireland has made its bed with the eu. it must lie in it. what did you mean by that ? mean by that? >> i meant that it decided to surrender all its sovereignty to the eu. yeah. and it is now helpless . and it also insisted. helpless. and it also insisted. absolutely insisted on all post—brexit negotiations that there should be no hard border. >> yeah. and of course there is. as theresa villiers was saying earlier on when she was on with camilla this morning, that there's a certain irony around all of this as well, because at the time of the brexit negotiations opens, one, i was indeed first minister of northern ireland, we were told no , no, ireland can't negotiate no, no, ireland can't negotiate with the uk. they have to negotiate it with the european

union. and now when the prime minister says that in relation to migration, he's. oh, that's terrible . terrible. >> i know they are not being terribly logical about this. i mean, i should. ireland is the country i come from. sure and i have quite a lot of loyalty to it, but i have a lot of loyalty to this country too. >> yeah. >> yeah. >> and i like to , you know, i >> and i like to, you know, i will shout for ireland at cricket , but i'll shout for cricket, but i'll shout for england at rugby. >> yes. that's a thing. yes. >> yes. that's a thing. yes. >> so i tried to be fair, but the fact of the matter is they, they, they talk about a century of si king sovereignty from the big bully next door. yes, they got it and they didn't really enjoy it, so they handed it over to the eu. so now they are desperately contradicting themselves because the eu agreed with them. the eu completely picked up the irish, facilitated them, actually facilitated and they now they don't know what to say. it wasn't supposed to be like that. you see if my

countrymen have a failing and they like all of us, they have many , one of them is that they many, one of them is that they don't think things through . they don't think things through. they have no interest in thinking things through. i'm a great fan of the law of unintended consequences, and there should have been people in the diplomatic side and the political side saying this could prove to be bad for us, but no, no, no, we will be throwing our lot with the eu and they think we're the favoured country of the eu, and it's all going to be fine. and now it isn't all. >> well, you and i both know that it wasn't always like that. and actually, before leo varadkar became , the taoiseach, varadkar became, the taoiseach, that there was actually conversations happening between enda kenny and ourselves in northern ireland to try and make things work after brexit. now, don't get me wrong, enda was totally vehemently opposed to brexit, but when it happened , he brexit, but when it happened, he he accepted that it had happened and there was a need to find solutions for the island of ireland, but when leo varadkar came in, that all changed of course. and then it was no . so course. and then it was no. so everything has to be european, despite the fact ruth and our

listeners and our viewers may not realise this. there is a common travel area between the whole of the island of ireland and the mainland. >> that's absolutely true . and i >> that's absolutely true. and i think people don't realise how dependent ireland is on england for other reasons, pragmatic reasons like and security . sure, reasons like and security. sure, the irish have not thought through security. the russians are sniffing around, the russians are sniffing around the undersea cables, and the irish are saying there's no problem. they don't have a defence force with any better than having you and me. really, absolutely hopeless. and they've been dependent on the raf, but they haven't talked about it. >> and when that's raised, of course it's dismissed . course it's dismissed. absolutely as well. >> it's absolutely key. haaland has left themselves vulnerable. and they've done the same thing with the border. yeah and they haven't really got to do so. there's massive panic and that panic part of that panic ruth, was the announcement which was then rolled back on, that they were going to send 100 guards to man a border. >> that's over 300 odd miles

long to stop these migrants coming over the border. how they were going to do that is another question that has to be said. were they going to get on the buses on the road from belfast to dublin and check who looked like a migrant, you know , it's like a migrant, you know, it's mad stuff, except that they don't approve of racial profiling . profiling. >> correct. so they tie themselves up with all sorts of eu legislation and human rights stuff and everything else. which leaves them no capacity to do anything off their own bat while we at least have capacity to do things off our own bat because of brexit. >> and tell me, ruth, i mean, people are saying this is because of the rwanda legislation. i happen to believe that this was happening long before the rwanda legislation. and actually our correspondent in northern ireland, dougie beattie, has been looking at this now for nearly a year, when there were riots happening in dubun there were riots happening in dublin around migrants coming into estates. there but is this an easy way to blame the brits , an easy way to blame the brits, as it were, for what's happening in ireland? the brits are therefore to be blamed, you know, always were. >> but the thing is , again, they

>> but the thing is, again, they didn't think of what might happen on the immigration front because self—image is very important. virtue. sure, sure. >> are a great virtue signalling nation. >> so quite genuinely they opened their arms to the ukrainians. come on in, everybody. it'll be fine. it'll be grand. and then you've got 100,000 of them. ireland is a very small country and it couldn't cope. and then somalians started to come, and then afghani started to come, and then nobody had made any arrangements for sufficient accommodation. so panic again. yeah. >> and do you think part of the plea to ukrainians to come and stay with us was because they felt guilty that they were a neutral country, so they weren't offering any military help, but here we are offering humanitarian help. come and stay with us. i think there's a part of that that is quite a part of it. >> there are also naturally generous. >> yes, absolutely. >> yes, absolutely. >> yeah. you know, and they, as i say, they don't think things through. >> people want to be welcoming . >> people want to be welcoming. and you and i both know that. but you have to think about the logistics of this. and when you place somebody from , africa or

place somebody from, africa or from a far flung country into the middle of nowhere, let's face it, we have plenty of places in the middle of nowhere in northern ireland, as well as in northern ireland, as well as in the republic of ireland. it's difficult for the refugees as well, isn't it? >> yes. it's terrible for the refugees. >> yeah , they're petrified and >> yeah, they're petrified and they're the ones i keep thinking of through all this . of through all this. >> yes. i mean, wouldn't you in their position, rush over the nearest border if it was going to yield you anything? yeah, yeah. >> well, it reminds me of that. dougie beattie. did in belfast with an african migrant. and who said he landed in belfast not knowing anything about the history of the peace walls or anything around the divisions in northern ireland. and then he said he was caught in the middle of it and it was quite scary for him, actually . yes. him, actually. yes. >> that is, i don't know how they're going to get out of this except that it's got to be done . except that it's got to be done. the bilateral negotiations. >> yes. that's what i was going to ask you . i mean, there is to ask you. i mean, there is this tendency for the uk to say , this tendency for the uk to say, well, here you go. you told us you couldn't work with us on the brexit negotiations, that it had

to be through the european union , it's very easy to do that. but presumably the uk will want to try and find a solution as well as ireland. >> well, actually, in fairness, rishi sunak was saying that the day before an election, sure . so day before an election, sure. so he's talking big. yeah. and the irish are talking big because they've got elections on the 17th. >> yeah. >> yeah. >> of june. >> of june. >> yeah. so nobody's going to be talking the most sense in those circumstances. >> yeah i think it'll be okay behind the scenes. >> that's what i was going to say . you would hope that say. you would hope that officials behind the scenes would be trying to work out a solution to this. >> i would, and if michal martin, who was the deputy, who was taoiseach , if he's more or was taoiseach, if he's more or less in charge of it, i have faith in him. yes, he's very sensible. >> yes. of course, for our viewers and listeners, we've got a new t shirt now, so, he will probably be wanting to make his mark as well, because sinn fein are coming behind and they have an interesting view on all of this, have they not, ruth , this, have they not, ruth, should sinn fein have no problem in dropping all their policies? yeah. >> without by simply saying that wasn't what i said, but what i

meant was the opposite . so meant was the opposite. so that's what they're doing. >> isn't it incredible, though, that a party that was incredibly anti—europe before the referendum here in the uk then turned on the on their tail and said, no, no, no, we love europe now. and, everything's good about it. and now mary lou mcdonald saying that she wasn't actually in favour of an open border, which is untrue. which is untrue completely untrue. >> yeah. brutally untrue. but she has no problem in adjusting history. yeah. to suit her. >> my, i think the concern of other politicians, including the government in ireland, would be how can they do that? but they seem to get away with that and they seem to be able to do that. no problem. >> yes. i mean, sinn fein, are they the really tricky people in all this? the only thing they care about is getting power. they have no interest in anything else. so the notion that they'll be happy, that they will really want the two countries to get on better. yes isn't part of it. yes, yes, this is all playing a game . yes. sinn is all playing a game. yes. sinn fein, to be honest. >> it's like snp in scotland.

sinn fein in ireland, both north and south. >> but let's be cheerful. look what happened to the snp. >> yes, there are reasons to be cheerful . cheerful. >> there certainly are. >> there certainly are. >> yes, ruth, it's always wonderful to have you in. thank you so much for coming in to have a conversation about this, which is a complicated matter, but hopefully we've helped with it today. thank you to ruth dudley edwards. and after the break, i'll be speaking to martin whittaker about the rising influence of the evangelical right in america. stay with us for that

i >> -- >> we are proud to be gb news the people's channel. and as you know, we always love to hear your views. now there's a new way of getting in touch with us at gbnews.com/yoursay >> your say by commenting, you can be part of a live conversation and join our gb news community. you can even talk to me , bev turner or any of talk to me, bev turner or any of the members of the gb news family . simply go to

family. simply go to gbnews.com/yoursay . gbnews.com/yoursay. >> welcome back to the show. well, with important elections taking place across poland later this year, one group that could be a key defining influence on the outcome. and that's the evangelical right or christian conservative voter base. and they've always held a close association with the republican party. or have they? we're going to find out about that in a few seconds. but their support for donald trump has become a defining feature. it certainly was in 2016. and donald trump had a comfortable victory in the iowa primaries in january. once again showing that in that republican area, it was dominated by white evangelicals. no rival can touch him as regards that. so to discuss this, i'm delighted to be joined by historian and author martin whitaker. martin, thank you so much for coming in. and i hesitated there because of course, we were chatting beforehand that actually the

evangelical right weren't always with the republican party. no, they certainly weren't until the 1960s, a large section of conservative christians in the southern states in the deep south were what were called dixiecrats, effectively , they dixiecrats, effectively, they were democrats, although they were democrats, although they were tended to be right leaning when it came to social issues. >> one needs to remember, of course, that slavery was abolished under lincoln, who was abolished under lincoln, who was a republican . and so in the a republican. and so in the south, democrats. yeah, it's interesting, isn't it? so in the south, democrats very much hung on to that. whereas whereas democrats in the north tend to move to more liberal positions after fdr in the 1930s. and so by the 1960s, the democrats were increasingly being associated with the counterculture , with with the counterculture, with liberalisation of abortion laws and so on. and around that time , and so on. and around that time, dixiecrats in the south began to shift big time to the republican party, so that roe v wade case, that was in the early 70s. >> yeah. 73. yeah. so that's the sort of time it actually predated that, because it was

against the background of the vietnam war of the 60s. >> you see, the big defining moment. so it's from the from the vietnam war to the culture wars of today . there's kind of wars of today. there's kind of wars of today. there's kind of wars in both of it. the permissive society, the 60s that, the mood music was changing in america , both changing in america, both literally and figuratively, as it was across the world. and at that period of time, southern evangelicals , who were a very evangelicals, who were a very large part of the movement, shifted to the republican party and created effectively what has become the evangelical right of 2024 and so on. but it was not always thus. it was more complicated before the 60s. >> and you believe martin, do you, that, that group of evangelical christians are going to have a big impact on the elections later on this year? >> i certainly do, it's a changing demographic. so in 2006, 24, 23, 24% of adult americans identified as evangelical. that's a huge number, tens of millions. now, we now think from latest data that's dropped to about 14, but we're still talking about tens of millions of people. and in

2016, something like 81% of them voted for trump. i calculate that's about 33.7 million votes. a similar proportion voted for him in 2016. and as you alluded to earlier, the primaries have shown that there's still that very solid support. so we're in a situation now where us evangelicals are now solidly maga . they are solidly trump, maga. they are solidly trump, which of course raises eyebrows amongst the evangelical community and many other places, not least of all the united kingdom. when they look at the moral stance of him. and that's because us evangelicals are in a complex political situation. it's not quite the same as here. >> yeah, and i remember having a discussion with an evangelical about this, and they take the view that, yes, they accept that he has , feelings, i think was he has, feelings, i think was the word he uses, but still he advocates in terms of christianity and he talks about christianity. so they feel that because he does that they will

give him their support because of course, biden famously, and again , we were chatting about again, we were chatting about this during the break that, you know, still in america , there's know, still in america, there's a need to be seen to be a churchgoer . yes, very much so. churchgoer. yes, very much so. >> prayer breakfast. yes. being in touch with church leaders, that's absolutely right. we'll have to remember is trump is very much a trans national politician. yes. he is the master of the deal and in effect, spoken or unspoken, a transaction has taken place between us evangelicals and trump. and he's basically said, i will deliver on key things that you want, mostly on supreme court placements, which has been hugely influential in overturning the 1973 judgement of roe versus wade, but also appointing judges to other circuit courts, which just don't get the headlines in this country. and they effectively have thrown themselves fully behind him. there is a kind of a transactional arrangement going on, and i think some evangelicals have really bought into the maga movement, and they

see him as cyrus, an old testament reference to a king of persia who was not of the household of faith and yet was behind god's people. >> i'm glad you mentioned sarah, because i was going to and then i didn't bother. >> it is articulated. it's not just implied. there's explicit references that he is our cyrus . references that he is our cyrus. they say many people will be scratching their heads and thinking, what's that about? they're saying he's not of the household of faith, but he's delivering some things that we want to have delivered. the complexity is, of course, that within that cocktail of things that he's delivering will be things that will be recognised by evangelicals globally who have a conservative approach towards sexuality or traditional approach or sexuality. gender reproduction, and who are concerned about these areas. but they'll also morph seamlessly into opposition to gun control . into opposition to gun control. well, visceral opposition to state health care, opposition to climate change action. and that's the point at which many evangelicals in the uk for example, and i come from a uk evangelical community, begin to

say, where do we how do we get here? i can see where we started, but how did we get here? so if there is a very complex cocktail of factors , we complex cocktail of factors, we shouldn't just assume that if you know an evangelical who goes to a church next to you in rotherham, that that's exactly how it is , in alabama, because how it is, in alabama, because there are some real differences between the us evangelical community and the evangelical community and the evangelical community here, which is much more heterogeneous, much more mixed in terms of its political outlook . outlook. >> and in terms of biden, do you think any of the evangelical rights will be pulled towards his point of view? because, of course , he he is a churchgoer. course, he he is a churchgoer. he goes to mass, he's a roman catholic , but he takes a very catholic, but he takes a very particular view on social conservative issues , doesn't he? conservative issues, doesn't he? >> i suspect not, but but we have to have an ethnic identifier here, and it's very rarely spoken about . but for rarely spoken about. but for example, something like, you know, 60% of evangelicals, who support him are white or, sorry, 6% of the base are white at the moment, but he can rise to 80% or 70. this is this is for trump

. but but but only 40% of black evangelicals vote for trump. so you have a context in which white evangelicals , as high as white evangelicals, as high as 80% of them are thoroughly pro—trump, and i do not think can be detached and move to biden. but what's more in play is the hispanic vote and the black evangelical vote. and there trump has struggled to get beyond 40, which means there are in the past 60% of that community who have voted for biden. so in many ways, biden's job, as it were , is to keep and job, as it were, is to keep and hold and not lose, particularly black evangelicals. i think white evangelicals are probably unlikely to shift because they really dug in deep, behind the maga movement . maga movement. >> hum, hum. it's very interesting because of course, we've been talking about faith and politics here recently, again, with the whole discussion around kate forbes. exactly. in scotland and the fact that humza yousaf was, of course, a muslim, he believed in the faith. he was

he believed in the faith. he was he very much believed in everything associated with it, had prayers at bute house. but at the moment you suggest that someone from the christian evangelical community is going to come along all of a sudden, where are we going ? where are we going? >> there is a curious antipathy, particularly in the media, towards christian evangelicals. talk to people on the streets, you know, ordinary people, and they have often very admiring of those who have strong beliefs graciously communicated, of course, but know what they think. stand by these values , think. stand by these values, are not afraid to talk about them. but yet, actually, once you get into the media, you then hit this kind of glass ceiling of criticism, of snyder comments. and it's very, very difficult for a christian with conservative, small c conservative, small c conservative social and theological values to actually get the same sort of attention in the states . it would be taken in the states. it would be taken almost as a given. you'd have to have a degree of that in this country. there's a lot of criticism of people like that, but it tends to be reserved particularly for christians of conservative viewpoint rather than people of other major world faiths who might have very

similar viewpoints on, i don't know, reproductive rights or sexuality or gender or what have you . it tends to be very much you. it tends to be very much focused on on on christians. i find that much of concern, but it's also curious as well. why? why is it only reserved for that particular area ? and it tends to particular area? and it tends to be so. yeah. >> well, it's something i'm going to talk about with my next guest, martin, because it concerns me as well, because when you have people of muslim faiths or indeed our prime minister who's a hindu and who is very openly said that his faith guides him in what he does. but yet when you're a christian, that doesn't seem to be the case. martin, thank you so much for coming in. and after the break, we'll be discussing the break, we'll be discussing the future of scotland after humza yousaf's swift departure earlier this week, we'll be looking at who's next in line to take on the position of scotland's first minister. and i'll be speaking to political commentator and journalist ian mcwhirter. but first, let's get a . news.

a. news. >> it's 1229 a. news. >> it's1229 emma a. news. >> it's 1229 emma pattison a. news. >> it's1229 emma pattison in the gb newsroom. our top stories. the prime minister is promising to take the fight to labour despite suffering mayoral election losses in england's two biggest cities. labour's richard parker seized the west midlands from outgoing tory mayor andy street, and london mayor sadiq khan secured a historic third term in office. transport secretary mark harper told us it's secretary mark harper told us wsfime secretary mark harper told us it's time to rally around the leader . leader. >> i think all conservatives now need to get behind the prime minister as the chairman said in his article this morning, and take that message to the country we see from the analysis the experts have done that. the results show that the position is closer than the polls are suggesting. so it's everything is delightful for the next election , and we're absolutely election, and we're absolutely up for that fight. >> well, a bit of breaking news for you now. more than 8500 small boat migrants have crossed the english channel so far this yeah the english channel so far this year. that's after more than 250 made the illegal journey on

saturday, gb news can reveal that another small boat crossed into uk waters this morning, with at least 50 people on board this year, crossings are now 35% higher than the same period of 2023. ministers have blamed the increase on in numbers on a surge in migrants from vietnam , surge in migrants from vietnam, where around 32,000 properties are still without running water. in east sussex due to a burst pipe. southern water has issued an apology to customers in saint leonards on sea, hastings and westfield as they enter their fourth day of disruption. in a statement, the firm said they hope the supply will start to gradually return throughout today and australian police say a 16 year old boy killed after stabbing a man in perth had been radicalised online. the teenager was shot dead on saturday night after stabbing a victim in the back with a kitchen knife. authorities say the attack indicated terrorism and there were signs of mental health issues . for the latest stories,

issues. for the latest stories, you can sign up to gb news alerts by scanning the qr code on your screen or go to gb news. com slash alerts now. dame arlene will be back in just a moment

i >> welcome back to the show . >> welcome back to the show. well, after humza yousaf confirmed earlier this week he would stand down as first minister of scotland, the former deputy minister under nicola sturgeon, john swinney, has become the leading contender to take on the role. at the moment he's the only contender actually, and it looks like that's what's going to be the case. it's probably going to be a coronation of mr swinney. he has the backing of several snp politicians, and he said he wanted to create a modern, diverse and dynamic scotland that will ensure opportunities for all our citizens. he's a bit

of a job to do, given from where he starts anyway . we did expect he starts anyway. we did expect kate forbes to run, she decided, however, not to contest the leadership this time around. but the question is did her christian faith provide a barrier to her succession ? the barrier to her succession? the snp is keeping the contest open until noon on tomorrow, monday the 6th of may. on the off chance that a rebel party member puts their names forward. if no other candidate emerges, it is thought yusuf could formally resign as first minister as early as tuesday and allow swinney to take the oath the following day. darren grimes is here with me to discuss all of this before i hear what's on your show. darren, i wanted to have a chat about this because to me , if you're a muslim or to me, if you're a muslim or a hindu or indeed any other faith, it's fine to talk about your faith and to say how it has an impact on your values. but if you're from the evangelical right, there's a problem. >> there is. >> there is. >> and were you to suggest actually as a muslim or a hindu ,

actually as a muslim or a hindu, whatever else, that you ought to vote as a block, can you imagine a christian turning around and saying, actually, i think christians in this country need to unite. there would be condemnation of being in the throes of fascism or something as ridiculous. the hyperbole would be off the scale. yeah, i think it's a real problem . i think it's a real problem. i think it's a real problem. i think kate forbes has been vilified, especially in london, by the london media here, much of the established media, anyway, in saying that actually someone with christian faith, jacob rees—mogg, gets it as well i >> -- >> oh -_ >> oh yeah, we all get it. but i mean, she seems to get it particularly because scotland has become this progressive place , even though kate forbes place, even though kate forbes has said herself, look, i have these particular views, but i've no intention of putting them on to anybody else. >> they say scotland has become this bastion of progressive liberalism . but actually, if you liberalism. but actually, if you compare the polling with england, there is much there, much in the same vein as we are. >> i'm talking about the government. >> probably not. indeed, i agree, so i agree with that. but you know, the political class are actually removed from the

public, especially on issues. let's not forget humza yousaf and nicola sturgeon and john swinney is the continuity sturgeon . essentially. it's sturgeon. essentially. it's another one that they presided over a scotland which allowed a double rapist trans person to enter a female prison . yeah, enter a female prison. yeah, there are issues where actually issues of conscience , of faith, issues of conscience, of faith, not even issues of christianity , not even issues of christianity, but issues of people saying, i don't think it's right that these things happen in scotland. they're being derided as being some kind of bigot. and i'm afraid to say that christianity is seemed to be synonymous with that kind of so—called bigotry. but i don't actually believe it is bigotry to want female prisons and all these other vulnerable spaces to remain protected and separate from, well, what was a male predator in that instance? so the snp have got real problems to try and convince people. and i don't think going like a pack of wolves at someone because she holds christian faith is going

to do them any favours. >> but i think it is interesting , is it not, that john swinney has already said that he wants kate forbes in the new administration? i thought that was quite telling. and then i thought, you know, kate forbes is being quite savvy in all of this by not running because she's going to allow the snp to get whatever kicking they're going to get at the next election , and then probably election, and then probably she'll throw her hat in the ring for leadership and she'll be able to turn around and say, look, we've had three attempts of continuity. >> sturgeon i'm the change candidate. so elect me and we'll go on a different path for independence in scotland because let's not forget that's their raison d'etre. ultimately and it's been able to have been readily forgotten. i think by focusing on the culture wars essentially, and the snp being the vanguard within the hall of the vanguard within the hall of the united kingdom, of what i would describe as wahaca and wokery over public service and delivery, so i think you're right . she has been savvy. she's

right. she has been savvy. she's playing their cards close to her chest, and i don't think this will be the last we hear from her. >> oh, no, definitely not. and she's a young woman as well, and i thought it was interesting. i read a piece in the times , on read a piece in the times, on friday from a lady called sarah durham , who comes from an durham, who comes from an evangelical christian background herself , evangelical christian background herself, although evangelical christian background herself , although she evangelical christian background herself, although she isn't, and she said that it was only the snobs. snobs who hailed kate forbes faith against her. i thought that was very interesting because, you know , interesting because, you know, there's a lot of people in who feel good about themselves if they embrace muslims or if they embrace hindus or sikhs or whoever. but the evangelical right. oh no. >> well, it's seen as declasse to be a christian. right? it's seen as progressive and liberal and tolerant and all these watchwords at the moment. >> but do they know what muslims and hindus believe? that's the point i'm making. well, because there's very little difference in terms of some of the things that they're talking about. >> i think they're starting to find that out because george galloway, just this morning, arlene was hung up on, on lbc or rather hung up on lbc and a

less, a less favourable news outlet, and he was discussing same sex relationships. now, all these liberal types would be up in arms clutching their pearls if they heard someone describe same sex relationships as not normal, which is what george galloway said. but i'm afraid that if they speak to many muslim voters up and down the country or many hindu voters or many whatever religious variation you are, they would hear people express sentiments that say that actually same sex relationships or same certainly same sex marriage goes against their faith and they don't believe in them and or wouldn't support them. now why is it that they can understand that when it comes to the right and christianity that they do, and they can't see it in any other form, and it's because it's become the in vogue, it's in mode to actually hold these views and believe these things and deride christianity. and you get kudos for doing so. but when

it's any other faith, absolutely not. >> it's a bit like the i'm sorry to have to say this, darren, this whole regime of queers for palestine. >> oh no. i mean, do they actually actually know what happens to homosexuals? >> well, you know what i mean. >> well, you know what i mean. >> your pronouns in palestine would be be headed and that's the that's the reality of thrown off roof. yeah. and that would be a pronouns over there. so no i'm not sure they are alive to that. i'm not sure they are alive to that . i'm not i'm not sure they are alive to that. i'm not sure i'm not sure they are alive to that . i'm not sure they are that. i'm not sure they are awake to that. >> but again, it's because it's fashionable, because fashionable. >> it used to be that you would walk around with a prada or a louis vuitton to actually show off your, your fashion trend and your fashion sense. these days it's fashionable causes. it's been seen to actually show your palestinian flag or show your lgbtq i plus whatever it is these days. flag, the grown monstrosity that looks like a sort of vomit artwork, that's what's in fashion now. that's what's in fashion now. that's what's fashionable to people. >> well, tell me, i better ask you, what do you have in your

shoe ? because you've been on shoe? because you've been on mine now. so tell me what's up. tell me what's coming up. >> we are going to be discussing, actually, the george galloway saga. right? what actually that means for british politics and moving forward, will there be a split within the progressive left that actually says that we can't countenance holding these views and will actually they wake up, you know, the likes of owen jones, he waxes lyrical about palestine and all these other things. is that not inconsistent with so—called progressive politics? and then we'll be discussing, well, obviously, the local election results and what this actually means going forward. suella braverman's comments, and well, andy street's saying they need to be more centrist , need to be more centrist, arlene. sure. but suella and others, ben houchen, perhaps being a little bit less favourable. i wouldn't describe the 2019 coalition that was built as especially centrist. right. | built as especially centrist. right. i would say that actually they focused on a patriotic, right leaning prospectus that said, we're going to secure brexit, we're going to deliver

the benefits of it. ben houchen has been relentless about focusing on those benefits . yes, focusing on those benefits. yes, i would argue that in other parts of the country they simply haven't been. it's been like sort of the forgotten ugly duckling of british politics. so where do we go from here? where does the conservative party go from here, and what does that mean for britain? >> okay, darren. well, i'm sure everybody will stay tuned. and thank you for coming in to have a chat with me, thanks a million to darren grimes for that. and after the break, we'll be enjoying some bank holiday barbecue fun with andy shovel, the founder of the uk based plant based company this. can he convince to us put some alternative options on our barbecue? this bank holiday. stay with

us. welcome back to the show. and as we tuck into our bank holiday

treats this weekend, we may be looking for something new. ideas about how to spruce up our barbecue spreads , as hopefully, barbecue spreads, as hopefully, we can start to enjoy some warmer weather in the coming months . it's warmer weather in the coming months. it's certainly nice here in london today anyway. andy shovel, the founder of uk based plant food, is called this, joins me now with some of his tasty creations. andy thank you for coming in. thank you to talk about this and tell us why this came about. because i think you came about. because i think you came from a meat background, didn't you? >> yeah, i've gone full circle. it's a really odd genesis for a plant based brand, because both my co—founder and i, we founded , my co—founder and i, we founded, ran and then eventually sold a meat based restaurant business, and where was that? andy? >> so it was in london. yeah. and we had sites in oxford and cambridge after that as well, and we decided after that to commit to becoming part of a sort of sustainable business in the future. so we decided we looked at all kinds of stuff, wacky ideas like electric sports, car brand and waste management, all kinds of stuff. and in the end, one of us, we can't remember who, said, have

you seen what beyond meat and impossible foods are doing in the states? it's really interesting. and then we went over to the states on some like magical burger tasting tour and sounds fabulous. it was. yeah. although like anything, the sheen wears off like 15 burgers in. yes. and so we decided that we were going to commit to building a business in the uk because back then, in sort of 2017, 18, it was just really legacy old fashioned brands, in our opinion , who were on the our opinion, who were on the market with products that weren't necessarily at the cutting edge of what's possible. so voila. and are you a vegetarian yourself? no, i'm fully plant based. >> yes, yes, yes yes. so vegan you would say. yeah. >> i don't tend to use the v word that much. yeah. >> right. okay. so you just say plant based. >> yeah. yeah i am. yeah, yeah. >> yeah. yeah i am. yeah, yeah. >> okay. and, as you know, and i've heard you say this, that actually , a lot of the stuff in actually, a lot of the stuff in terms of vegetarian or vegan or plant based wasn't tasting very good, was it? >> yeah, i think there was mixed quality. yeah, big time. and

evenin quality. yeah, big time. and even in the last couple of years, it's been a quite a broad spectrum of quality on the market, i think we've been our own worst enemy as a category in some respects. we've done a lot. right. and the sustainability story is a very easy, clear one. often the health story is actually quite clear as well. yes. but then taste wise, yeah, i think brands like us are performing on taste and then some brands less so. >> so i mean, it's funny you should mention that because people think, yes, it's for good my health to eat in this way, but i'm just going to have a sneaky sausage or i'm just going to have a, you know, and it's almost like it's a it's a reward , isn't it? so how do you get away from that, andy. >> yeah . so i think do you mean >> yeah. so i think do you mean reward to have meat. yes i see what you mean. yeah. so i think, you get away from that by producing products which have taste parity. sure. so these products here. >> yeah. so let's have a look at these products here. >> so these are isn't pork sausages. yeah these are isn't lamb kebabs which are particularly relevant for your barbecue scenario. you mentioned at the beginning. yeah. and these these if you were, if i was to sort of blindfold you or actually not tell you and you could see and you could taste,

you wouldn't tell the difference. really? yeah, i was hoping someone would bring some out , but i'm hoping someone would bring some out, but i'm not sure we've got time. >> maybe not. but in terms of so what is your product range then? we've got some lamb kebabs here. we've got some lamb kebabs here. we've got some pork sausages. is there anything else that you put onto the market? >> yeah, we've got plant based chicken products. oh plant based burgers . burgers. >> we've got tastes like chicken. really. it does become a thing. exactly. >> yeah, yeah. we've got basically across the whole spectrum of needs, we've got a product for it. so we've got about 15 products on the market. hum, yeah. as i say, from chicken , even lardons like we've chicken, even lardons like we've got a, isn't chicken roast product that we've got. >> and do you have to prepare these in a different way to preparing for a barbecue? meat based products. >> so really handily not. it's the same. so you would cook these sausages in exactly the same way. they've even got a skin that crisps up which is made from seaweed. so or algae, i should say. really. so, yeah. like there's no difference in experience in smell, even when you're cooking it over the pan, you're cooking it over the pan, you get that same kind of porky. really? yeah. the only

difference is i would say. and how do you get that smell . how how do you get that smell. how do you manufacture that into the, to the product. >> so we use natural flavours but it's a real art form. you have to basically decode what makes pork taste and smell like pork . because. because if i were pork. because. because if i were to ask you or anybody else on the street, like what does pork taste like? they might take a minute and actually, when you really think about it from a more scientific perspective , it more scientific perspective, it tastes, you know, for argument's sake , there might be an element sake, there might be an element of cheesiness in the flavour. it might be an element of like fattiness. there might be a sweet element, like there are all kinds of different building blocks which go into making a flavour or a smell, and you have to try and decode them and then build them up again, so you find a natural flavour which tastes a bit cheesy, like yeast, for instance, or something like that, and then you go from there and build it back up. so it's kind of like decoding and then recoding it and how did you do that? >> was that through research in a lab or. yes we've got a pretty formidable r&d capability as business. >> we've got about 20 full time scientists in the business doing

this kind of work. yeah, okay. >> and i see that you're a recipient of the great taste award, which you must be very pleased about as well. yeah very, very pleased. >> we've got a few of those as a business. yeah. and every time doesn't get old. it's a really prestigious. >> oh yes it is. >> yeah. of accreditation. so yeah. >> so will you be going home now to barbecue. is that, is that the plan for or maybe tomorrow maybe. yeah. i was gonna say i'm not sure the weather's going to hold out today. >> oh goodness. >> oh goodness. >> the weather forecast is beaten and we'll be having the weather forecast soon. but you're saying the weather's not going to hold out today? >> i don't think so. but then jokes aside, i think it's pretty cool that brands like us unlock that barbecue occasion . for that barbecue occasion. for people. yeah, because if you want to go plant based, even if you're not someone who's vegan, i mean, you can go into very easily. no no, now, now you can. >> and you're not excluding anybody from the barbecue and giving them a mushroom or something. >> exactly . there's nothing >> exactly. there's nothing worse than being given a mushroom as posing as protein. yes. >> well, look, thank you so much for coming in and for bringing in your products here today. a

huge thank you to andy shovel andindeed huge thank you to andy shovel and indeed a huge thank you to all my guests this morning for coming in on a sunday here to the studio and on a bank holiday weekend as well. i really appreciate it. of course, michael will be back with you next sunday from 11 am. and up next sunday from 11 am. and up next it's gb news sunday and darren's going to be taking you through all of the stories there, which he laid out for you earlier on. i hope you can stay with them. thank you. >> looks like things are heating up. boxt boilers sponsors of weather on gb news. >> hello and welcome to your gb news weather update brought to you by the met office. a lot of cloud and rain continuing in the north. sunshine and showers. bank holiday monday, but turning a little bit more settled before that though we do have low pressure in charge, especially across southeastern england, bringing cloudier conditions here with outbreaks of rain and that rain is going to be pushing

its way northwards, affecting the south and southern parts of wales and also southeastern england further north across northern ireland and scotland. staying cloudy here. patchy outbreaks of rain, but also some showers breaking out across north eastern parts of scotland. some of these could turn quite thundery in the sunshine , though thundery in the sunshine, though we could see highs reaching up to 18, possibly 19 degrees across the likes of the midlands. so feeling warm where you do see the sunshine into this evening, then cloud and rain is going to be continuing to push its way northward. rain generally fizzling out across parts of wales but across scotland and northern ireland, still holding on to a lot of cloud. still patchy outbreaks of rain. and then across southeastern england , with just southeastern england, with just seeing some outbreaks of rain moving in otherwise , with a lot moving in otherwise, with a lot of cloud around temperatures really staying up. but we will see some mist and fog patches developing, especially across the central parts of england, that generally lifting, breaking up. but it is going to be a damp start across southeastern england on bank holiday monday. outbreaks of rain here elsewhere

sunny spells, showers breaking out more widely. sunny spells, showers breaking out more widely . some of these out more widely. some of these could be on the heavy side with highs of 18 or 19 degrees. that warm feeling inside from boxt boilers, sponsors of weather on . boilers, sponsors of weather on. gb news. >> 2024 a battleground year the year the nation decides as the parties gear up their campaigns for the next general election, who will be left standing when the british people make one of the british people make one of the biggest decisions of their lives? >> who will rise and who will fall? let's find out together. >> for every moment, the highs , >> for every moment, the highs, the lows, the twists and turns. we'll be with you for every step of this journey. in 2024. gb news is britain's election

channel. >> hello. and a very warm welcome to gb news sunday. thank you very much for your company this lunchtime . i'm darren this lunchtime. i'm darren grimes, and for the next two hours, i'll be keeping you company on tv, online and on digital radio. coming up in this houn digital radio. coming up in this hour. suella braverman has slammed rishi sunak, saying the local and mayoral election losses are the consequences of his decisions . the former home his decisions. the former home secretary says the prime minister needs to own the results and therefore needs to fix it . we'll be discussing fix it. we'll be discussing what, if anything, the conservatives can do to save themselves. it's claimed meghan markle will stay away from the uk this week. are you delighted with insiders saying she's worried she'll be booed by the public? but what will the response be to harry as he commences his trip for the invictus games? and is it a welcome return for the prince

and rochdale mp george